[DVBC] [Fwd: Re: [sbbike] Montecito letterreply]

Wed Jun 20 08:34:50 EDT 2007

I was commenting on how the Shuman letter stated that bicyclists need to fear drivers because bicyclists have been killed in the past.  I inferred that as a bit of a threat from that guy...better watch out or we're gonna kill more of you.  I find that twisted, on the verge of demented.  Fear never grows into respect.  Fear grows into hatred.  Bicycles and cars should respect each other.

  That story of a cop being afraid of a bunch of bicyclists was obviously made up.  I was making fun of the lunacy of the story.  Lighten up.  Life's too short.  Especially, if you happen to be on a road with somebody like Shuman...and I guess from your words, you too.

  Sure it's right to get out of the way when a car is coming.  I always try to do that...heck, I try to stay on the line to work on my technique whenever conditions are safe for it.  That said, the wind in your ears might prevent you from hearing the car behind you or somebody yelling car back.  People drift off now and then.  That doesn't give the Shumans, or you, the right to try to use your car as a weapon and drive them into the bushes or parked cars.

  Bottom line - There are jerks out there on bikes and in cars. Learn to live with them or move someplace where they don't exist.

Len Zanetich <freewheelinguy at verizon.net> wrote:
        v\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  o\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  w\:* {behavior:url(#default#VML);}  .shape {behavior:url(#default#VML);}        st1\:*{behavior:url(#default#ieooui) }                Hey Joe you reading the same email as me?  “The Shuman logic (kill a few of them and the rest should fall in line) is pretty twisted.”  

  I agree with them as a concerned motorist, except the part where he states where he thought bikes had to ride on only roads with bike lanes.  If you’re trying to be funny with your second paragraph, I’m not laughing.

---------------------------------

  From: dvbc-list-bounces at list.dvbc.org [mailto:dvbc-list-bounces at list.dvbc.org] On Behalf Of Joe Sayer
Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 7:35 AM
To: dvbc-list at dvbc.org
Subject: Re: [DVBC] [Fwd: Re: [sbbike] Montecito letterreply]

    I'm curious about how the cop explained his/her fear of a bunch of spandex clad skinny people.  "I knew they were trouble because they were all sweaty.  Then they came at me with their water bottles, and I didn't know what to do!  They almost attacked me!"

Larry Green <largreen at earthlink.net> wrote:

    Here is an example of what goes on in Santa Barbara, Ca
Larry

-------- Original Message -------- 
          Subject: 
    Re: [sbbike] Montecito letterreply
      Date: 
    Tue, 19 Jun 2007 22:50:08 -0700
      From: 
    Suzie Null <snull at education.ucsb.edu>
      To: 
    Frazer Hazlett - TIME SPORT INTERNATIONAL <FrazerH at TimeSportUSA.com>
      CC: 
    SB Bicycle Coalition <sbbike at lists.riseup.net>
      References: 
    <20070618153607.KKZX3133.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net at fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> <007901c7b2d7$21e46f00$0701a8c0 at 200405Dimension>

Frazer and

 others:    For what it's worth, here's a copy of the Letter to the Editor I sent to   the Montecito Journal last night.    Response to Shuman's "Coexisting with Cyclists"    As a bicyclist who commutes to school and work, and as a former resident   of Montecito, I was truly frightened that drivers like Mark and Adriana   Shuman are operating vehicles despite their poor understanding of the   California Vehicle Laws.    The Shumans ask what they should do about the "problem" of cyclists   using the roads.  The short answer would be that they should stop   driving before they kill someone.  At the very least they should get   correct information about where bicyclists fit into the California   Vehicle Code, which can be accessed online at   http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/tocd11c1a4.htm.  Since the Shumans   seem unclear on what the law states, here is a brief synopsis:   

 Article 21200 states:  "Every person riding a bicycle upon a highway has   all the rights and is subject to all the provisions applicable to the   driver of a vehicle."    Article 21202 states:  "Any person operating a bicycle upon a roadway at   a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving in the same   direction at that time shall ride as close as practicable to the   right-hand curb or edge of the roadway except. . . when reasonably   necessary to avoid conditions (including, but not limited to, fixed or   moving objects, vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface   hazards, or substandard width lanes) that make it unsafe to continue   along the right-hand curb or edge, subject to the provisions of Section   21656."    And Mr. and Mrs. Shuman should note that no one "expects" them "to break   the law by having to cross over a double yellow line."  The California   Vehicle Code clearly states that motorists should treat bicycles exactly   as they would any

 other slow vehicle:  they should maintain a safe   following distance until it is safe to pass.    I hope the Shumans and all motorists (as well as bicyclists) will   realize that part of being a responsible driver is dealing safely with   different kinds of vehicles that move at varied speeds, and that it's   the driver's responsibility to safely handle varying road conditions   such as narrow or curvy roads.  Drivers who put operators of other   vehicles at risk face the possibility of losing their own driving   privileges.    Suzie Null  Goleta    Frazer Hazlett - TIME SPORT INTERNATIONAL wrote:  > I told a few friends about the letter last night and all are intending   > to write to The Journal with responses.  >  > Frazer Hazlett  >  > Operations Manager  > TIME SPORT INTERNATIONAL  >  > FrazerH at TimeSportUSA.com  >  >  >  > ----- Original Message -----

 From: "Ralph Fertig" <sb-ralph at cox.net>  > To: "SB Bicycle Coalition" <sbbike at lists.riseup.net>  > Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007 8:36 AM  > Subject: [sbbike] Montecito letter needs reply  >  >  > The following letter to the Montecito Journal was published last  > Thursday, June 14th.  It represents a view that many motorists have & we  > have to contend with -- our lower speeds not only inconvenience them, but  > "force" them to break the law, thereby endangering their car occupants.  > You can email your reply to Montecito Journal, Letters to the Editor,  > tim at montecitojournal.net . It's especially important for residents of  > Montecito to respond to this, but any others who bike there are  > threatened as

 well.  >  > ~~ Ralph Fertig, President  > ~~ Santa Barbara Bicycle Coalition  >  > ==========( begin letter )==========  >  > Coexisting with Cyclists  >  > I have a question: does anyone else in Montecito have a problem with  > cyclists? My wife and I have lived here two years now and have not heard  > anyone complain. I know we live in a beautiful area and community, that's  > why we moved here, but I don't feel like jeopardizing my family¹s life  > every time I drive on East Valley, Toro Canyon, Sheffield and Ortega  > Ridge Road because a cyclist thinks he owns the road.  >  > All of these roads have very limited visibility, with no bike lanes and  > the cyclists expect you to break the law by having to cross over a double  > line, which is illegal, when you can't even see if there is oncoming  > traffic. This is an extremely dangerous situation and it happens  > everyday. I am in constant fear of being

 responsible for hitting a biker  > just because I want to stay safe in my lane.  >  > Since there is no shoulder, a single cyclist is bad enough, as they  > refuse to stay on the white line and ride in the middle of the lane, but  > if there are multiple cyclists they insist on riding side by side and  > taking the whole lane. You have no choice but to break the law and  > endanger your life to get around them. They have no fear of cars and if  > you honk you get a hand gesture as if you are the problem, acting as if  > it is their road and I am inconveniencing them.  >  > I had thought before I moved here that cycling required a bike lane but I  > guess that is not true. Why do we have bike lanes if they can ride on  > roads with no bike lanes and even more with no shoulders and no room for  > a cyclist? They have spent millions on bike paths lately and some roads  > in our area do have them; why can't we restrict cyclists to

 roads with  > bike lanes, which do exist in the area?  >  > I spoke to a Sheriff¹s Deputy and he told me that cyclists have the same  > rights as a car, which I understand, but if I was in my car doing 5 mph  > in a 35 mph zone I would get a ticket for going too slow. The deputy also  > told me they have problems all the time with cyclists and not long ago a  > group of them almost attacked an officer for approaching a group of  > cyclists that were causing trouble. I thought cyclists were mostly good  > people; they obviously care about their health so why would they think  > they don't need to worry about cars? I have heard stories of many people  > in the area hurt or even killed cycling by a car.  >  > I would like to not just complain, but to do something about this. Can  > anyone tell me what we need to do to fix this problem? What can we do to  > stop this?  >  > Mark & Adriana Shuman  > Montecito  >  >

 ==========( end letter )==========  >  >  >  >  >  > List-Unsubscribe:   > <mailto:sympa at lists.riseup.net?subject=unsubscribe%20sbbike>  > List-Post: <mailto:sbbike at lists.riseup.net>  > List-Owner: <mailto:sbbike-request at lists.riseup.net>  > List-Archive: <http://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/sbbike>  >  > List-Unsubscribe:   > <mailto:sympa at lists.riseup.net?subject=unsubscribe%20sbbike>  > List-Post: <mailto:sbbike at lists.riseup.net>  > List-Owner: <mailto:sbbike-request at lists.riseup.net>  > List-Archive: <http://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/sbbike>  List-Unsubscribe: <mailto:sympa at lists.riseup.net?subject=unsubscribe%20sbbike>  List-Post: <mailto:sbbike at lists.riseup.net>  List-Owner: <mailto:sbbike-request at lists.riseup.net>  List-Archive: <http://lists.riseup.net/www/arc/sbbike>   

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