[DVBC] [Fwd: Re: [sbbike] Montecito letterreply]
len zanetich
freewheelinguy at verizon.net
Wed Jun 20 11:43:05 EDT 2007
I didn't read any lucacy in his story other than what I commented on
previously. I think you are misinterrupting his statement or maybe I
am . I keep rereading his statement and don't see the comments you
are referring to. Your last sentence sure sounds like Love It or
Leave It. Shame about the wind noise. Don't justify the idiots of
our cycling community unless you're one of them.
I know the story about the cop was made up. When people make light
of a very serious problem it doesn't sit to well with me. I get
annoyed on almost every ride because I see club members putting them
and us and the car drivers into potentially dangerous situations. I
can lighten up and life isn't so short.
And I'm personally offended by your comments including me with using
my car as a weapon. You have personally disrespected my character,
therefore, I challenge you to a duel at sunrise.
On Jun 20, 2007, at 8:34 AM, Joe Sayer wrote:
> I was commenting on how the Shuman letter stated that bicyclists
> need to fear drivers because bicyclists have been killed in the
> past. I inferred that as a bit of a threat from that guy...better
> watch out or we're gonna kill more of you. I find that twisted, on
> the verge of demented. Fear never grows into respect. Fear grows
> into hatred. Bicycles and cars should respect each other.
>
> That story of a cop being afraid of a bunch of bicyclists was
> obviously made up. I was making fun of the lunacy of the story.
> Lighten up. Life's too short. Especially, if you happen to be on
> a road with somebody like Shuman...and I guess from your words, you
> too.
>
> Sure it's right to get out of the way when a car is coming. I
> always try to do that...heck, I try to stay on the line to work on
> my technique whenever conditions are safe for it. That said, the
> wind in your ears might prevent you from hearing the car behind you
> or somebody yelling car back. People drift off now and then. That
> doesn't give the Shumans, or you, the right to try to use your car
> as a weapon and drive them into the bushes or parked cars.
>
> Bottom line - There are jerks out there on bikes and in cars. Learn
> to live with them or move someplace where they don't exist.
>
> Len Zanetich <freewheelinguy at verizon.net> wrote:
> Hey Joe you reading the same email as me? “The Shuman logic (kill
> a few of them and the rest should fall in line) is pretty twisted.”
>
> I agree with them as a concerned motorist, except the part where he
> states where he thought bikes had to ride on only roads with bike
> lanes. If you’re trying to be funny with your second paragraph,
> I’m not laughing.
>
>
> From: dvbc-list-bounces at list.dvbc.org [mailto:dvbc-list-
> bounces at list.dvbc.org] On Behalf Of Joe Sayer
> Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2007 7:35 AM
> To: dvbc-list at dvbc.org
> Subject: Re: [DVBC] [Fwd: Re: [sbbike] Montecito letterreply]
>
>
> I'm curious about how the cop explained his/her fear of a bunch of
> spandex clad skinny people. "I knew they were trouble because they
> were all sweaty. Then they came at me with their water bottles,
> and I didn't know what to do! They almost attacked me!"
>
> Larry Green <largreen at earthlink.net> wrote:
> Here is an example of what goes on in Santa Barbara, Ca
> Larry
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject:
> Re: [sbbike] Montecito letterreply
> Date:
> Tue, 19 Jun 2007 22:50:08 -0700
> From:
> Suzie Null <snull at education.ucsb.edu>
> To:
> Frazer Hazlett - TIME SPORT INTERNATIONAL <FrazerH at TimeSportUSA.com>
> CC:
> SB Bicycle Coalition <sbbike at lists.riseup.net>
> References:
> <20070618153607.KKZX3133.fed1rmmtao102.cox.net at fed1rmimpo02.cox.net> <
> 007901c7b2d7$21e46f00$0701a8c0 at 200405Dimension>
>
> Frazer and
> others: For what it's worth, here's a copy of the Letter to the
> Editor I sent to the Montecito Journal last night. Response to
> Shuman's "Coexisting with Cyclists" As a bicyclist who commutes
> to school and work, and as a former resident of Montecito, I was
> truly frightened that drivers like Mark and
> Adriana Shuman are operating vehicles despite their poor
> understanding of the California Vehicle Laws. The Shumans ask
> what they should do about the "problem" of cyclists using the
> roads. The short answer would be that they should stop driving
> before they kill someone. At the very least they should get
> correct information about where bicyclists fit into the
> California Vehicle Code, which can be accessed online at http://
> www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/vc/tocd11c1a4.htm. Since the Shumans
> seem unclear on what the law states, here is a brief synopsis:
> Article 21200 states: "Every person riding a bicycle upon a
> highway has all the rights and is subject to
> all the provisions applicable to the driver of a vehicle."
> Article 21202 states: "Any person operating a bicycle upon a
> roadway at a speed less than the normal speed of traffic moving
> in the same direction at that time shall ride as close as
> practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway
> except. . . when reasonably necessary to avoid conditions
> (including, but not limited to, fixed or moving objects,
> vehicles, bicycles, pedestrians, animals, surface hazards, or
> substandard width lanes) that make it unsafe to continue along
> the right-hand curb or edge, subject to the provisions of Section
> 21656." And Mr. and Mrs. Shuman should note that no one
> "expects" them "to break the law by having to cross over a double
> yellow line." The California Vehicle Code clearly states that
> motorists should
> treat bicycles exactly as they would any
> other slow vehicle: they should maintain a safe following
> distance until it is safe to pass. I hope the Shumans and all
> motorists (as well as bicyclists) will realize that part of being
> a responsible driver is dealing safely with different kinds of
> vehicles that move at varied speeds, and that it's the driver's
> responsibility to safely handle varying road conditions such as
> narrow or curvy roads. Drivers who put operators of other
> vehicles at risk face the possibility of losing their own driving
> privileges. Suzie Null Goleta Frazer Hazlett - TIME SPORT
> INTERNATIONAL wrote: > I told a few friends
> about the letter last night and all are intending > to write to
> The Journal with responses. > > Frazer Hazlett > > Operations
> Manager > TIME SPORT INTERNATIONAL > > FrazerH at TimeSportUSA.com
> > > > > ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ralph Fertig" <sb-ralph at cox.net> > To: "SB Bicycle
> Coalition" <sbbike at lists.riseup.net> > Sent: Monday, June 18, 2007
> 8:36 AM > Subject: [sbbike] Montecito letter needs reply > > >
> The following letter to the Montecito Journal was published last >
> Thursday, June 14th. It represents a view that many motorists have
> & we
> > have to contend with -- our lower speeds not only inconvenience
> them, but > "force" them to break the law, thereby endangering
> their car occupants. > You can email your reply to Montecito
> Journal, Letters to the Editor, > tim at montecitojournal.net . It's
> especially important for residents of > Montecito to respond to
> this, but any others who bike there are > threatened as
> well. > > ~~ Ralph Fertig, President > ~~ Santa Barbara Bicycle
> Coalition > > ==========( begin letter )========== > >
> Coexisting with Cyclists > > I have a question: does anyone else
> in Montecito have a problem with > cyclists? My wife and I have
> lived here two years now and have not heard > anyone complain. I
> know we
> live in a beautiful area and community, that's > why we moved
> here, but I don't feel like jeopardizing my family¹s life > every
> time I drive on East Valley, Toro Canyon, Sheffield and Ortega >
> Ridge Road because a cyclist thinks he owns the road. > > All of
> these roads have very limited visibility, with no bike lanes and >
> the cyclists expect you to break the law by having to cross over a
> double > line, which is illegal, when you can't even see if there
> is oncoming > traffic. This is an extremely dangerous situation
> and it happens > everyday. I am in constant fear of being
> responsible for hitting a biker > just because I want to stay
> safe in my lane. > > Since there is no shoulder, a single cyclist
> is bad enough, as they > refuse to stay on the white line and ride
> in the middle of the lane, but > if there are multiple cyclists
> they insist on riding side by side and > taking the whole lane.
> You have no choice but to break the law and > endanger your life
> to get around them. They have no fear of cars and if > you honk
> you get a hand gesture as if you are the problem, acting as if >
> it is their road and I am inconveniencing them. > > I had thought
> before I moved here that cycling required a bike lane but I >
> guess that is not true. Why do we have bike lanes if they can ride
> on > roads with no bike lanes and even more with no shoulders and
> no room for > a cyclist? They have spent
> millions on bike paths lately and some roads > in our area do
> have them; why can't we restrict cyclists to
> roads with > bike lanes, which do exist in the area? > > I
> spoke to a Sheriff¹s Deputy and he told me that cyclists have the
> same > rights as a car, which I understand, but if I was in my car
> doing 5 mph > in a 35 mph zone I would get a ticket for going too
> slow. The deputy also > told me they have problems all the time
> with cyclists and not long ago a > group of them almost attacked
> an officer for approaching a group of > cyclists that were causing
> trouble. I thought cyclists were mostly good > people; they
> obviously care about their health so why would they think > they
> don't need to worry about cars? I have heard stories of many
> people > in the area hurt or even
> killed cycling by a car. > > I would like to not just complain,
> but to do something about this. Can > anyone tell me what we need
> to do to fix this problem? What can we do to > stop this? > >
> Mark & Adriana Shuman > Montecito > >
> ==========( end letter )========== > > > > > > List-
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